The 100 season 6 propels our heroes into a brand new world, and Sachin Sahel (Eric Jackson) has a lot to say about it!
There is no bigger The 100 fan than Sachin Sahel, aka Eric Jackson, aka one half of everyone’s* OTP Mackson.
(*Mine. It’s my OTP.)
In honor of the latest The 100 episode, “The Gospel of Josephine,” I spoke to Sahel about all things Jackson, season 6, the fandom and his important new movie Unkept.
Our entire conversation is available to listen to right here:
Below is a write-up of the interview:
Selina Wilken: I’m so excited to talk about The 100 with you.
Sachin Sahel: It’s unreal. This season is my favorite so far, for sure. It has such a soul to it, something special that is hard to describe. Every episode is so riveting and exciting. I’m just amped to watch it, as amped as I was to watch the first season.
‘Cause anything can happen.
And it will, I guarantee you that anything will happen.
What is it like for you as an actor to watch the show go through this renaissance, essentially?
It feels like the first season all over again, watching it, and it felt that way while we were filming it. When I read the scripts, I was like, oh my god, this is something new all over again. And for an actor to be able to say that after six years of a show is the greatest gift you can get, ’cause it’s not often that you are reinvigorated or rejuvenated by something that you’ve been a part of for six years. I feel like we’ve renewed our vows.
And then to see the fruition of it when it’s actually airing… it’s even better than I thought! Not only were the scripts great, but the post-production’s great, and you get to see all the actors… like, how many little stories are intertwined within all the stories that are happening? There are so many things going on at once that all intertwine. It’s just so cool to watch.
I am invigorated watching it as a full card-carrying sci-fi person. Not only is it sci-fi, it’s personal stories. We find a mixture of blending the new stuff that’s happening with still dealing with the ramifications of the people that we were, and it’s just awesome.
They have an entire moon, and they could go anywhere and do anything. And they manage to split you up into separate stories, but they’re all connected, and it doesn’t feel forced.
Yeah, people are going on their necessary journeys through those stories. And that’s why I think it doesn’t feel forced. If they were all together, it would feel like they were doing it for a story, whereas this feels like reality. It feels like these are the things these people have to go through.
Like Diyoza: We always knew she had a past, and no matter what, your past still comes to find you, on a new moon, and you still have to deal with it. And Octavia. These two people are still dealing with their past on this new moon. And Abby, who’s trying to deal with Blodreina and Kane on top of that. Using the facilities on there to figure out how to save him, because there might be a way on this new moon…
Every time you say “new moon,” I’m like, Twilight.
Because I kept saying “planet.” You’re just keeping me in practice so I make sure to say moon.
But what’s deep inside Sanctum and what’s going on underneath it all, that in fact they were these deities finding a way to live forever…
If you were gonna tie it all back to Becca and the mythology, this is the way to do it!
Yeah, the mythology exists deeper than we all thought it would. How what Becca created years ago means different things in different places where people were separated, is the coolest. And I think that’s just a testament to the writing, to find ways to make it all make sense.
And going back to season 1… it was sci-fi in season 1, but this is sci-fi, you know? It’s amazing how we’ve gotten to a place where these characters are being taken over by brain chips and magic goop in the ground, and it somehow doesn’t feel like jumping the shark.
The glop-glop.
The glop-glop!
I think the reason why it doesn’t feel like jumping the shark is because it’s rooted in humanity. It’s not sci-fi for the sake of sci-fi. Sci-fi is there to tell the over-arching story of these people. And when you root it in reality, the things that are happening are extraneous to it. Because it’s not magic, it’s science.
Well, the glop… is it science?
You’ll figure out what the glop-glop is. I’m very excited for everyone to find out about [the extraneous stuff]. But that’s its scientific name, the glop-glop.
You brought up Abby before, and obviously that was the big scene in this episode for you. Not only does Jackson stand up to Abby, but the things she says to him… you could see on your face, that really meant a lot to Jackson.
Yeah, because Jackson has always been a guy that’s tried to do the right thing. Regardless of what has happened, his main objective is to do right by everybody, and especially the people he cares about. This scene meant so much to him because it all comes from a place of love for Abby, and all she’s done for him.
She’s not eating, she’s not sleeping, she’s not seeing what he thinks she needs to see in terms of saving Kane. He’s worried that all this stress is gonna cause her a relapse, and he’s worried that she’s gonna have to go through that again, and he doesn’t want to see his mentor, his friend, the person he’s closest to… it just comes from a place of pain.
And the things she says, while hurtful… they all have to deal with what they did under Blodreina. Some people are trying to have a new life on this moon, but it’s so hard when you still remember who you are and what you did. We saw in the first episode, with Jackson and Miller talking, that Jackson is excited to be here because he wants to do right for the world, and he thinks that, in this new place, maybe they can.
Miller was going through some stuff very similar to PTSD, and Abby’s going through [that too], but I think Jackson was just tired of feeling like he wasn’t doing right, or that he was being… not evil; he wouldn’t feel right about everything he was doing in the bunker, but he would still want to do right by the society. It was just an important thing to talk about, and it was an important thing to say. Because we don’t skimp on things on this show. If characters are feeling things, we’re going to say them, and that’s what I love about it.
Does Jackson consider himself a good man?
That’s a good question. At this point, I think he might not. Because objectively, when you’re trying to think about yourself, people are always the heroes in their own stories, right? So the reason he’s always trying to do good is because he feels like he’s surrounded all the time by so many things that aren’t good. And he’s been involved in a lot of them. And he’s always trying to find his humanity. And I think if he felt like a purely good man, if he felt proud of himself all the time, if he felt like ‘I’m doing everything great,’ he wouldn’t have that motivation to be even better.
Sachin sees Jackson as a good man, because I believe in intentions, and good intentions matter. Sometimes bad things happen in this world and we have to learn from them. But Jackson sees all those things that he did — because you remember the things that went wrong in your life or that you did poorly — and I think he’s just trying to be a good man.
So when Abby lays this condemnation on him, is he surprised by it? Or is it more that she’s confirming what he already thinks about himself?
Yeah, it’s layered in so many emotions. He’s so upset that she said that to him, ’cause she knows how hard he tries to be a good man. Like the way Sachin sees Jackson, he would hope that Abby sees him like that. And to get the affirmation that she’s thinking about him as possibly a war criminal would hurt. If two people have been to war together, and one guy says, ‘Yeah, but you did all this there,’ it would be like, ‘Why? You know we’ve been through this together, you can’t put that guilt on me.’ So I think he’s surprised by that.
And again, with him trying to be a good man, I don’t think he ever thought of himself as a war criminal. I think in the bunker, he saw the things going on around him and he was like, ‘Okay, a lot of bad things are happening around me. I have to be the best version of myself in this world that I can be.’ A lot of times, in the world that you’re living in, if it’s dark, depressing and painful, the best version of yourself is not gonna be a version of yourself that you like, but you gotta do the best you can for everybody. So I think more than anything, it hurt because she knew what they’ve been through, and for her to say that to him, it changed the way he looks at everything.
Obviously it’s hard to talk about how much we’re going to see the fallout of that conversation, but does it change how Jackson approaches things?
I think the bunker changed the way Jackson responds to a lot of things. This season was a big change for him, which is awesome to me, in that you see that elatedness like, we’re on a new world, we’re aliens — I loved that line so much, thank you, Jason — but he was actually elated, for the first time on this show. I think it changed him and allowed him to have a deeper subset of emotions, because he’s been through so much; he’s kind of become a little darker inside, but when there’s light, he becomes even happier.
So he’s on a wider range of scale. Like, if you’re kind of in the middle ground most of the time, you’re kind of in a zen space, but when you’ve been through a lot, it makes you go up and down. We’re seeing it with Jordan, for example: When we first saw him, he was this happy-go-lucky guy who hadn’t been through much, and this episode in particular so many things happen that he’d never been through before, and you’re seeing this wide range of emotion happen. And it’s so cool to watch people get to go up and down like that because things are happening to them that they never thought would.
I am in awe of Shannon Kook in this role.
The first moment that I thought ‘this guy is unreal’ was when he said, “I wish mom and dad could see this,” and then when he was talking to Delilah about his mom and dad. Because he’s such a pure character. And if you think about it, he saw only pure unadulterated love with his mom and dad. They survived together, and wanted to live together and not have to deal with anything but each other and their son.
So the first time he feels this emotion — and I can’t speak for Shannon, but this is just what I think about his character — he’s like, ‘Oh my god. I’ve gotta hold onto this because my parents held onto it.’ And the first time he gets it [with Delilah], it gets taken away. And watching him play that… Shannon is unbelievable. I literally think nobody could play this character besides him. If you know him in real life, and you know kind of the depths of emotions and conversations that you have with him, and his intelligence, you see why he brings so much to the character.
Pivoting back to how Jackson sees himself: In the psychosis episode, the characters were affected in very different ways. Why do you think Jackson was affected the way he was, as opposed to turning [his aggression] inward like Echo and Clarke?
Because his main fear is that he can’t help the people that he loves. I think what [the psychosis] brought out is a big fear, the over-arching fear that’s inside you. That’s what I saw what they wrote for Jackson. My biggest fear is that somebody I love is in front of me; I’m a doctor, this is my skillset, this is what I’m supposed to be able to do is to save people, and I’m not gonna be able to do it for the person that I care most about.
We don’t know why Miller and Jackson saw the same psychosis, but I would think that if Miller was going through that psychosis and he said, ‘Oh my god, the bugs are inside of me,’ Jackson would be tied up and the psychosis would make him scared that he couldn’t save Miller from the bugs, and then create that very response. So two people having the same hallucination, I took that as Miller seeing it first and Jackson not being able to save him. So whatever the other person was going through, Jackson would not be able to protect them from it.
When you have an episode like that, how much are you given from the writers and director explaining how exactly it works, and how much do you have to interpret it for yourselves?
If you ask them, they’ll definitely give you an idea of where the basis came from. I think they trust us enough now to kind of delve into the story, and understand what makes most sense for ourselves, which is amazing. Because as long as we understand it, it works. And then when they’re on set they can give us directions and tell us certain things, if something needs to be changed because it’s written this way for a purpose. But for the most part, what’s really amazing after doing this for so long is that they really trust our process and they let us have a conversation about it.
When it comes to stuff like this, we come in with our interpretation or idea, and then we discuss it with them. Jason [Rothenberg] was on set for that episode, so we got to talk to him and create a discourse and he’d be like, ‘Yeah, that’s great, but what if we also did a little bit of this,’ and we’d be like, ‘Okay, that’s perfect.’ And that kind of trust is something most people don’t get. I think it comes from tenure and longevity and making sure you know your character well.
And you know the writers, too. It feels to me like there’s a really strong camaraderie between the writers and the actors that I haven’t experienced on a lot of shows I’ve covered.
Yeah, I don’t know what it is about this show… maybe it’s the subject matter, because we’re talking so much about humanity. Maybe it’s because the writers care about their characters so much. And we want to talk about it, because there’s so much to unpack. It’s an over-arching six-year story that’s still continuing, that we can still bring up something that happened in season 2 that maybe would affect our characters now.
Even having a Book 2, which is a completely different circumstance, a completely different world, completely different people and story, we’re still unpacking human beings. We’re creating fully-fledged humans on this show over the course of time, and that’s so cool. Like if you look at Bob [Morley]: How much has Bellamy changed from season 1 to now? He’s the person everybody’s coming to, and he’s gotta talk to them and make them feel like they can succeed and they can accomplish the things that they wanna accomplish.
So when we talk to the writers, it’s because there’s so much to talk about. If we go to dinner together, or if we ever sit down and talk, we literally will just talk for hours about the show and about each other, and we learn so much.
When you talk to the writers, do they take into consideration what you want to happen or what you want your character to go through?
They are very receptive to anything you want to bring to the table. They have an over-arching story to tell, so it has to fit within the framework of the story, because they are the storytellers and we’re the ones that are presenting their story — that’s the way I feel, anyway, that I’m here to service the story as much as I can — but they definitely are very receptive to what we want to happen.
Like this scene with Abby I just had: We ran it a couple different ways, and initially the idea was that I was going to be a little more upset off the top because she was working so hard, but [I ended up] coming in with a little more tenderness — which was such a cool way to play it because it gave the scene so many more layers — and then get upset immediately because she’s not listening. And I’m getting upset because I’m worried my friend is going to be in pain and I wanna fix it.
It’s just a big collaboration at this point, and there’s no real be-all-end-all like who gets a say in what. Except, at the end of the day, I think Jason’s vision is the thing that will and should prevail, because it’s his story, and I think we trust the product that’s gonna come out, because the story is so intriguing.
I feel like that scene without that tenderness would still work, but it’s those little moments — also like you and Luisa [d’Oliveira] getting food, and being happy about the food — that makes it come alive, you know?
You can never put your finger on why people are so intrigued by anything. Like, you’re watching Eliza [Taylor] this season, for example. One of my favorite moments from her was when Raven was getting mad at her, and Eliza was just listening. And it was so honest and so real. The reason you’re so drawn to those moments is because it’s pure truth.
And those little moments you’re talking about are little moments of truth that keep the audience engaged in ways that maybe other shows might not. It’s little moments like that that build a universe in your brain and keeps you so engaged. World building. Little moments matter.
Right, the story sparks something in you. That’s why I like The 100. It makes me think. This season in particular… I love the potential.
I can’t believe it’s episode 5 already. I always love movies and books where you’re in about 40 minutes in, and you still have no idea what’s happening. There’s still so much to unpack in this world, and I can’t wait for you guys to see it. There’s a lot of things going on with Madi and Gaia, there’s a lot of things we haven’t really touched upon yet, and a lot that we have.
Like in this episode, we found out these people are trying to be immortal and they spent 25 years trying to do it. That means they were testing people for 25 years, and then the brain had to be at a certain maturity, which means that they worked on brains that weren’t mature! So these people have a real darkness to them in order to survive.
What was it like watching Eliza be Josephine?
Okay! So the first time I got to see Eliza be Josephine was when I walked out of that first scene with Abby, where we were having a conversation and I leave. As soon as I walk out of the scene, I get to go and watch. And I was like, ‘This is so weird.’ I’d never seen those reactions come out of Clarke’s face before. To watch those little nuances Eliza was doing, being a little extra jovial, it just felt so off and it was so cool. You knew the moment you saw it that it was something special.
Eliza reminds me of Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks has this ability to be grounded in everything he’s doing, and it doesn’t look like he’s necessarily doing anything different, but he’s a completely different character every time. Look at Forrest Gump, Big; it’s not some outlandish choice, but the soul shifts, and you can see in his eyes that it’s a different person. That adjustment is not something a lot of people can do.
Josephine is not Clarke, you can see that immediately on camera. Those eyes, that’s not Clarke. And then you see her dancing and painting and stabbing someone in the neck… it was so cool to go behind the camera and watch it happen, because what she’s doing is gonna change everything.
So many actors on this show have been or are going to try directing. Is that something you’re interested in, or maybe writing?
Writing for sure. I love stories, I love creating worlds. Just in general, creating is my favorite thing. Directing is not necessarily something that interests me as much. I think you need a different type of brain to be a director, and it’s not one that I have. I love watching people act, but more than anything I love creating things. So definitely writing. It’s something that I’ve done just for fun, and slowly over time it might be something tangible.
When it comes to writing, to be able to create characters and worlds is so cool. I’ve had a lot of conversations with Jason, with all the writers and even the actors, about the world we’re in. Years ago, we were talking about the future of the show and what else we wanted to happen, and so many ideas came out. And that is something that comes easy to me, moving a story forward.
I feel like that’s what I do in my reviews. You just get so inspired by a show like this.
And isn’t that cool? I can’t stop gushing about the fact that six years later, to be this excited and this inspired about something you’ve been doing for six years, that you can somehow call a job. It’s truly special. You hear so many people who feel stagnant after such a long time because they play the same character, and it’s been the same show and they’re doing the same thing, but I’ve never once in this show felt like, ‘Oh well, here I go again!’
“Here I go again, another glop-glop!”
Another glop-glop! I’m still excited about it! Whatever it is, I’m amped.
You really engage with the fans on Twitter. I feel like that’s something you consider part of the experience?
100%. I want to fully absorb the experience that we’re in right now because I know it’s something special and I know that the day that it ends for me, I’m going to look back on it and miss it every day. It’s hard to explain to people how much I love people. And I love watching people enjoy something. I love seeing passion and energy and excitement about something that I’m a part of and involved in, and I want to enjoy it with those people.
And I think it’s so important that I live this with everybody. I don’t want to live at anybody, I want to live with everybody that are experiencing it. And that’s why I think it’s important that everybody has a safe space to talk about the show, and I’m going to do my best to make sure that everybody gets their positive voices heard and get to appreciate anything that they want to without worrying that anyone is going to rain on their parade.
Shipping is a thing that happens in every fandom. And I think whether you ship something that happened on the show or something that doesn’t happen, you are as allowed to love whatever you want to love. Because shipping at the end of the day just means love; you love two characters together. And it’s important that everybody feels like they’re allowed to do it. There is no right or wrong way to love a show, or anything.
I think that’s the only way to talk about this show. The point is that you can come into it with your own point of view and you can take away from it what you want. And if you start trying to police what is the ‘right’ or the ‘best’ opinions… I mean, The 100 is polarizing by design, it’s about all these characters who believe they are right, and the narrative treats all their points of view as though they could be right. So you’re going to have different opinions in a fandom, and if you try to act like that’s not allowed? You can’t have a fandom like that.
Exactly. You can have discussions — I’ve seen so many good discussions that I was like, oh my god, this is what it was built for. This respectful, honest discussion, not just someone coming in saying “wrong” or “you’re stupid.” And, you know, every fan that watches this show is a big reason why we still exist to this day, so I love every single one. Even the ones that are negative are showing passion. I just wish I could find a way to channel that and make it positive, because I don’t want anybody to be negative.
But everything exists with passion, and I want everybody to be able to be passionate any way they want to. Whether you are a — and I’m gonna name them, because I don’t want anyone to be scared of saying these names anymore, they’re not Voldemort — so whether you are a Bellarke or Clexa or Becho or Memori or Mackson–
[gasps]
Yay, Mackson! All of them are valid and all of them exist and you’re allowed to love them the way that you love them. And I love you for loving the show this much. It makes me so happy that you’re this passionate about it that you’ve created a name for something that you love, I love that.
I think it also comes down to the fact that the more you love something, and the more emotion it evokes in you, the more capacity that thing also has to disappoint you. So it goes hand-in-hand for fans, I think.
That is a beautifully said point. A lot of the things that are said are not negative because people are negative, it’s negative because you love it so much. It has the allusion of negativity because you care so much. Which again is so beautiful.
Yeah. And for me, the show is great, but my experience with the show only starts with the episode itself, and then it goes into how it affects all the people that are consuming it.
I also want to hear about Unkept.
It was a beautiful movie that I did. I’m Hindu Punjabi on my grandma’s side, and I got to play a Punjabi character for the first time and speak Punjabi. It was about a young boy growing up, and I played his dad, and he was having a hard time wearing a turban and he felt he was getting made fun of a lot, playing soccer. It’s about him navigating the world as a Sikh, in a world where he looks different all the time because he’s wearing a turban. And it was me and his mother kind of fighting over that a little bit.
It’s a beautiful story about a kid in this world who feels kind of ousted because his parents are immigrants, and his mom is trying to help him navigate it. My character is kind of traditionalist, and his mother is just trying to make sure he grows up the happiest boy he can be. It’s just a beautiful little film that I hope more people can see. Hopefully it’ll do some more festivals; it was made for a Crazy8s film festival in Vancouver, so if it does go anywhere else I’ll definitely announce it.
Was it a little bit nerve-wracking to bring that part of yourself on screen?
It was. Early on in my life I was so worried about playing an Indian character because I didn’t want to be stereotyped or typecast. I wanted to be an Indian on TV that the new-age kids that are growing up in this Western culture and who were born here could relate with. My parents were born in India, and I was born here, so I wanted to be a representation of those kids who kind of feel like they’re in the middle.
But the older I get, the more I’m realizing how important and how deeply intertwined my culture is with my self, and the more open I am to being like, ‘This is my culture, this is who I am, this is a part of me, and I want to represent all sides of me.’ As an artist, as a person, why not explore every part of me that I can?
I hope you get to do more projects like that in the future.
Yeah, I just want to do more things that speak to the world and that say things, that kind of uplift the energy, rave the vibration of things. We’re all so interconnected now, with the internet, from when I was growing up, that I just want this interconnectivity to be used to connect people as opposed to in a way that divides people. Those are the kinds of projects I wanna do. I wanna bring people together and I wanna have a positive discourse.
And I’m working on something right now that can hopefully do that online. I had a friend pass away last year who ran Justice Theater; he would go around to schools all year and do mock trials for kids to show them the ramifications of bullying. I worked with Justice Theater for about three years when I first moved to Vancouver. It was my first acting job, and he provided such a great life for so many actors. I want to find a way to continue his legacy, and I’m coming up with an idea right now to do that. So, coming soon.
[Other than that], I wanna be on this show. I have such a deep love for The 100 and as long as it allows me to do it, I wanna do it. So even if I can’t do another project because of it, it’s never a sad moment for me. I’ll wait.
It’s in your blood now.
Jackson is in my blood. When he feels things… I can’t tell you what it does to me as a person. It’s very strange. But I feel him in there all the time, and — this is gonna be weird — but I feel like we have such good conversations with each other about life, and we learn so much from each other now. He’s just a special guy, and I’ve learned as much about how to not be like him in the world as how to be like him. He’s given me more than I can count.
And one last question: Will Miller and Jackson be on screen together again this season?
I mean, we are in love with each other and we are each other’s boyfriends. I can assume that maybe we would look in each other’s eyes at some point.
That’s all I need.
Your Mackson love is more than appreciated. I love Jarod [Joseph], and acting with him is also such a special thing that I’ve been able to do, because he’s so free and loose with what he does, and so any time we get to do a scene together, it feels so freeing. I’m so grateful that he was chosen to be my partner on this show, because he’s a truly special actor. I just feel very blessed.
And there’s so much potential to that character as well. But that’s true for everyone. I just want more of all of them.
And that’s the great thing about this show. Everybody’s got a story to tell, because everybody’s real, everybody has a character, everybody has a point of view and everybody has a reality. You look at a person on screen, and you’re not looking at a talking head, you’re looking at a real living person going through this circumstance, because they’ve been through so much, and they have a way of looking at their life that you now understand so deeply.
Keep up with Sachin Sahel on Twitter, and catch the new episode of The 100 Tuesday, June 13 on The CW at 9/8c!