Hypable spoke with actor Osric Chau about the rise of Dirk Gently, the resurrection of Supernatural’s Kevin Tran, and the transgender story he’s helping others to create.
Osric Chau is having a bumper year.
He recently returned to Supernatural, the show that made his name, as an alternate universe version of his beloved character Kevin Tran, the AP student and Prophet of the Lord who played a major part in Sam and Dean’s lives for several seasons.
Prior to that, he was promoted to series regular status on Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency – he plays Vogel, one of the crazy and unusually-powered punk gang “The Rowdy 3,” in BBC’s America addictive adaptation of the Douglas Adams novels, which will air its season 2 finale this Saturday.
If you're not at @armageddonexponz, you can check me out Saturday night on @BBCAMERICA @DirkGentlyBBCA!? pic.twitter.com/UeHCK2H9vo
— Osric Chau (@OsricChau) October 20, 2017
As usual, he joined his Supernatural castmates at many U.S. dates of the show’s official convention tour, as well as at several other fan events worldwide, where he goes above and beyond the call of duty to engage with his audience on a personal level, because he’s a product of fandom himself. He creates content for his own YouTube channel, including a Dirk Gently behind-the-scenes blog and a series highlighting Asian American contributions to Hollywood.
He has a big mixed bag of projects in development, as a performer and producer. The latest, a short film called “I’m Just Here,” designed to boost transgender representation, just completed principle photography this weekend. And last week, mid-transit, Osric found a quiet corner somewhere in Newark airport to call in and chat about a few of his latest projects, immediately prior to boarding a plane for his next adventure.
Becuase despite all of the above, he still finds time to travel. For fun. Ugh.
NATALIE FISHER: Where are you off to today?
OSRIC CHAU: I am in New Jersey, I’m off to Spain. I’m going to Barcelona for a week.
You travel, man. Like, a lot.
The first half of this year I really didn’t go much, and I feel like I’m just making up for it now.
Where have you been in 2017? Obviously some of your travel is for work, and then some is just for you…
It’s like half-half. Okay, let’s see… I was in LA this morning. Yesterday I was in Vancouver. Before that was LA. Before that I was in Japan, and then before that was Hawaii. And then I was in LA. Then Vancouver, then LA, New Zealand. Then LA. Then the Philippines. Then LA. Then Germany, Austria, then where… Vancouver? And that takes us back to September!
Oh God. That’s just insane.
I know. It’s kinda crazy.
A lot of actors, a lot of creatives have to travel. People go on tour, to conventions, stuff like that. But you, you’re a voracious traveler. What’s your go-to for maintaining this lifestyle, either a practicality or a mentality with your travel?
I think it’s just meeting people from all over the world. Seeing different cultures, seeing different places. Seeing how perspectives are different, and how values are different, and how we can look at the same object and have two completely polar opposite feelings about it. I just really enjoy seeing how the world looks at everything so differently. One of the things that I absolutely love doing when I travel is just meeting as many locals as I possibly can. Doing a little bit of touristy stuff, but I would rather just kind of live as if I were a local.
Same, actually. When we all went to Hawaii a few weeks ago, that was the first time in maybe ten years that I’ve stayed in a hotel environment for more than a couple of nights, as opposed to staying with a local or in an Airbnb or something like that, anywhere that I’ve traveled to. That was the first time that I’ve been like, “on a vacation,” as opposed to going somewhere and then – even for a short time – living there normally.
Oh yeah. Airbnb is the way to go. I used to couch surf a lot, and that was great because you make a best friend right away. Or like hostels and stuff, until I started traveling with my laptop and it got a little bit sketchy.
Made it to the promised land! pic.twitter.com/h6ojCnxz4X
— Osric Chau (@OsricChau) October 20, 2017
What is the strangest place where you’ve encountered people that knew who you were?
One thing that really stands out is when I went to Istanbul, Turkey. Another one of those last minute trips that I just went on because I had a couple of free days and I was in Europe already. I’m like “Alright, I need something!” And I was going to go – where was I going to go…? I was going to go to Russia or something. And then my friend’s like, “Oh maybe you should go to Turkey, to Istanbul. When are you ever going to go there? It’s pretty close.” Sure. I’ll go there.
And I didn’t do any research. I just assumed that more people spoke English and I didn’t get a translator device or anything. And once I got in, very, very, few people actually spoke English, at least in the area that I was in. I did the best I could with sign language and stuff but it was quite difficult to get around, you know, not being able to speak the local language. Which is Turkish.
So what I ended up doing was, on my second day I went to a local café, I finally got some WiFi and I just tweeted out, “Hey, I’m going to be at the statue in this center in like five minutes” or something. I can’t quite remember… But I’m like, “Anyone want to show up and take me around?!”
“Help!”
And so I went to that statue and there were 20 people that showed up! It was the coolest thing, I was like “Oh my goodness. This is awesome.” There were about five of them that were in high school and their parents came too. And I was like, “I did not mean for you to skip out on school.”
But it was so fun. They took me around, translated for me. We were on the Asian side and they took me over to the European side. We went on a boat and then I took them all to this cafe and we just had tea by the sea. It was really, really nice. So that was a day excursion that randomly happened.
You’ve got stuff coming at you at all angles at the moment. You’re featuring heavily in this season of Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency, the greatest show currently on television…
Oh my god, it’s so good, yes!
You returned to Supernatural, which was a startling surprise for a lot of people when it was announced. That aired. We didn’t know you’d filmed. And it feels maybe like that was not the only episode either? Unless they’ve dropped that ball. It feels like that was not a one-and-done… Maybe?
I have no idea. But yeah. It would be really weird to leave it like that.
GIF by stairwaytoheavenx.tumblr.com
It’s at a point where it sounds like that arc [Apocalypse Word’s Michael and Kevin attempting to enter our world] is progressing.
You can’t have that entrance without an appropriate exit, right?
And you are doing a lot of your own projects as well, including as a producer on this short film you sent me. I wanted to talk a little bit about each of those – I don’t know what else you have in the pipeline besides all of these things… So the film, I’m Just Here, is about a transgender teenager or a transgender young person? Is that right?
So I’m developing a couple of feature film projects, some TV series, and a comic book thing with several different friends. Most of them are, to a certain extent, viable in terms of marketing and selling.
You can pitch normally – you can shop it around in a normal way.
Yeah. So I can get financing for that. But for a project like I’m Just Here, it’s a short film about a teenager [AFAB, who later discovers their identity as a transgender boy] who calls a suicide hotline and they just have this really good conversation with a girl the other end of the line.
They get disconnected and through that it changes both of their lives. [The premise of the title is] “You know what, I don’t know the right things to say – this is all bullshit that we always tell you – but whatever it is, I’m just here, for you. That’s all I can be.” And sometimes that’s all you can be and that’s enough. That’s what the short’s about.
Short films in general, there’s no way of making your money back on that. This is just a story that they wanted to make, that they wanted to share. And when I read the script I was just thinking like, “Yeah. This is – I would love to help.”
What you’re talking about here with this, and with other projects in the past, as a creator and producer… In your ideal world, what’s the divide? What would you prefer to be putting energy into, onscreen versus offscreen? As an actor versus developing, writing, logistics… Whatever it is that you are most drawn to.
For me, the behind-the-camera stuff, producing and all that, it comes out of a necessity. As a minority actor we’re not given the same amount of opportunities that a Caucasian white guy would get. Very early on I realized that, and I spent a good couple of years complaining about it, and then I realized “Well, complaining has netted me zero anything. So I gotta stop doing that. What do I need to change?”
Osric Chau creates his own Captain America, courtesy of Stardust and Melancholy.
Well, if I’m going to complain that people aren’t writing for me, I have to at least write for myself before I start complaining about that. So I started writing. And then it became a matter of producing. Like “Okay, I’ve got to create these projects, I have to be involved in the creative process.” Right now I think we’re in a good trend for minority actors, in that people are really starting to look for diversity. So I’m on the right side of that.
It’s just about being able to help, and push some projects for myself as well. I mean, getting involved in short films or other people’s projects where where I’m not in front of the camera, it’s just good practice. It’s just good to build those relationships for projects that you like and believe in. It’s all interconnected.
The writer of I’m Just Here, Marri Savinar, did a somewhat similar thing here in terms of creating this film, creating something, inspired by the people that she knew who were not being given a voice that had maybe the right tone to it. That the opportunities for transgender actors or opportunities for transgender people to see themselves on screen were often really lacking, or really negative and things like that.
So my question about that is: what is it like to be involved in something like this – and you yourself as a minority actor would be very sensitive to this – where it’s not your story? And it’s not necessarily Marri’s story. She’s been inspired by her transgender stepsister, but that it’s not a transgender person’s initial creation. How do you take care of that responsibility?
For me, I can sympathize with it, and this is where from a creative standpoint I had ideas: in terms of like normal story arcs, like “This is how it could be effective.” I don’t know the details, I kept saying “I don’t know the details” – but I’m just saying within the realm of reality or possibilities, if we can find this going that way, that would be the biggest change. I’m just talking about contrast and general storytelling basics.
When I was working on the script, those are the notes that I gave. Certain parts, certain tricky things that none of them were very experienced in, I would take the helm on that. But in terms of addressing specifically the issues that the transgender community comes across, I can only speculate. So for me this is a learning experience.
Actually, one of the main reasons why I took on this project was that – I think it was in 2014 – I met this fan of mine at the Dallas convention. And she was the most shy girl I’d ever met. I was mostly talking to her through her mom, and then the next year I saw her again. Same thing. Then the year after I met him. And he’d gone through this full transformation, and he had confidence. And it was just like meeting a completely different person.
Yeah. It’s a common story to hear.
Right. And so talking to them for three years – he was telling me for three years, wanting to be an actor. And you know, the first two years I was like, “Okay, well. You’re one of the most shy people I know. Like, you gotta work at it…” and gave him the steps. And then when it finally made sense, I was like “Okay, let’s go.” And then this project came up and I was reminded of him.
Oh, wow. And I think it could probably go without saying, you have a transgender actor in the main role.
Oh absolutely, of course.
I don’t think I even have to ask you that, but yeah! Just for the record! Have any of the actors been named yet at all? Marri mentions that there was someone involved that she wanted to work with for a long time.
We’ve got Wilson Cruz. That’s the actor that she was really excited for. The main person that transitions, his name is JJ Hawkins. And he just blew everyone away at the auditions. [Other cast include] Izzi Rojas, Hayes Beyersdorfer, Jack Tynan, Ali Cobrin, Chris Schermerhorn and Marri herself.
And so this is going into production now, regardless of the funds being raised. Is that right?
It has already started. So we’ve already shot two days and this Friday, Saturday, Sunday are our last three days.
You mentioned that people don’t make their money back on projects like these. What’s the situation with the Indiegogo fundraising campaign? Because obviously some projects out there, their chance at ever getting made is completely dependent on the money being raised or not, but you’re going ahead regardless.
This project has grown in scale. When I first read the script, I’m like “Yeah. We can totally do this with next to nothing.” And then the better people you want on board, the more that they can’t do it for free, they can’t volunteer their time. Equipment gets really expensive. And it just grew and grew and grew. This was a story that Marri really believed in. She wanted to go for it. I think Nikki [Snipper, the film’s third producer] is the one that’s fronting the money, but basically she’s dipping into her life savings, and this is to put it back.
There’s also all the unforeseen costs that we’re probably not aware of just yet. Which is post-production, and then festival costs and all that. That can run up quite a bit depending on what you end up wanting to do. So this is just to cover everything, and so that Nikki can pay rent.
Fair enough, so that it’s not a total financial loss. Well, I hope it goes well once it’s released, that it gains some notice and is seen by a wider audience. Was it yourself that suggested the Indiegogo based on your audience, or was it something she was always going to do?
I mean originally, when I jumped on, I was like “We can just do this. Let’s just make this happen!” And then it just got bigger and bigger and every time we added another name it just got bigger. And I mean with all the other things, we’re just thinking of everything we can do to raise funds.
We’re approaching all these companies and local businesses and we had a lot of the locations offer the locations for free, like the coffee shop, the bar. These are all people in the community that really wanted to help. It just became like, “Okay. This is actually good for us in two ways. One, we can start talking about it, sharing it…”
Showing that it’s coming.
Yeah. And so like “Okay, maybe it does make sense to do.” It is a big goal for such a last minute thing. We’re, I think, 36% there? That’s still pretty damn good. And if we don’t meet our goal, the project is going to be done by the time this campaign is over, so this is just us doing as much as we can for Nikki and Marri’s sake really.
It certainly sounds like a story worth telling. And then you obviously juggle – you’re the one here with some experience of how to keep this kind of stuff going, that you’re juggling while being at the mercy of others, on these big big productions this year, Dirk Gently and Supernatural. So how is that experience? Coordinating these small scale projects where you’re the big fish, and trying to get all of those pieces in place while being part of these massive productions where you’re the mercenary actor, basically?
It’s just finding that balance. Communication is a main focus for me. You know, just figuring out the different ways people can communicate, or that some people can’t. Just finding that work style that everyone likes and one that you enjoy the most. Some people, even if you can communicate with them, you just don’t enjoy that, or they can only do it this way, and that’s just not fun for me. And it’s just finding the right style.
Sometimes, yeah, you have everyone that has more experience than you’ve been alive. So you’re like “Okay, well, my ideas are new and different and they might not work for certain reasons or they might be innovative.” And there’s really no way of knowing.
When you’re a big fish in a smaller project you want to say “Okay, this is my experience,” but at the same time you kind of want to let people make their own mistakes and you want to let people take chances. And so it’s finding that balance of “This is definitely going to go wrong,” and “I can’t be certain that this will go wrong. This might be amazing.” There’s this quote that I really love, it’s “Every great idea started off as a terrible idea.” That’s kind of the way I look at it, and so it’s really hard to even use my experience to be like, “No. We shouldn’t do that.” Unless it’s just so blatant, like “Okay, there’s a very good reason why we don’t do this.”
What was it like to return to Supernatural this year? That’s a very wide-reaching generic question, I know, but I mean in this specific circumstance, in this very odd alternate universe plot, this new iteration of the character, and to be working only with actors that were not the actors that you usually worked with before. A very unusual turn of events.
You know what? Our actual shooting time is so minimal compared to all the other time we spent on set that it’s kind of not the way that I see things. So for a show like Supernatural, one – Kevin has been through four or five seasons? I don’t know, however many seasons he’s been in [Editor’s note: Kevin first appeared in season 7 and featured in 8, 9 and 11] and he’s gone through a lot of changes.
So the character stuff is just part of that progression. That part doesn’t strike me as weird or off or anything. It’s just like “Okay, I’m going back into this.” What was really nice and what was very different was working with Richard [Speight] you know? As a director.
Chau and Speight share the stage at a 2014 Supernatural convention, courtesy of Stardust and Melancholy.
Yeah. Because that’s a very interesting factor of your episode as well.
And finally working with Mark [Pellegrino, Lucifer] who I’ve known for so long. Working with Christian [Keyes, Michael]. A new person. Working with the entire crew! Seeing everyone. It was just like a big reunion, over and over again. Finding people in the hallways and just saying hi again. That was pretty much the entire day. And we shot everything in one day.
Oh, was it just one day?
Yeah, so it was really the interactions with the crew and the cast…
…Compared to the actual screen time.
I totally forgot everything that I did onscreen! It’s really about the people.
Obviously this Kevin was literally not the same person, so there’s a lot of deep conversations to be had there about nature versus nurture. About these character arcs for these duplicate characters that we are going to meet. What was there in the OG Kevin that brought out this Kevin for you?
To be honest? I don’t know, to me it feels like the same Kevin. He’s just a little bit wired.
This is the same Kevin if had been the experience he’d gone through.
Yeah. Richard just told me “You know what? Just go with it, go as big as you want with it.” He’s like, “You’re very grounded regardless, so go big.” So I’m like “Oh, okay. I’m on meth. Great, sure.”
Even before they dropped that methhead line from Lucifer, I was like yup, that’s the vibe there. So I really enjoyed it. And it’s just funny to watch that having Vogel on Dirk Gently all season, because there are shades there – not the same bigness, but there are shades of that erraticness going on as well in Kevin now that I have become familiar with in Vogel.
Oh yeah. Especially since I’ve played Vogel for two years now. Yeah. I think the biggest difference is that Kevin is coherent in his thought and speech.
Totally fair. So Dirk Gently is obviously going to have the finale in a couple of weeks. We just reached a real boiling point where they’ve sort of solved the mystery, and now need to fix it – now that they know what everything means. A lot of moving parts, a lot of different people coming together in this insane world of Wendimoor. What was that shoot – even just, for example, in episode 8 where everyone sort of comes back together on that absolutely bizarre set. What is the day-to-day life on that show even like? Because it seems just nuts. Like completely insane.
It is so fun. We all read the scripts, but seeing it how it is in real life is just like “Ohhh… This is what they’re doing!” I mean it’s just, it’s like a giant playground. Every time we see something new, it’s so fun and surprising. Everyone’s great. and me coming from Supernatural, I’m very cognizant of the fact that we’ve got to build the right set chemistry and get that right culture going, so we can emulate all the goodness from Supernatural. I’m very, very aware of that. I’m just like, “Alright guys, this is how we do it!”
“Here’s how you make this work!” I think it’s definitely got its own following of people becoming very dedicated to the show and the cast’s relationships with each other. You know I’ve known Sam [Barnett, the eponymous Dirk Gently] as an actor for over a decade, from his theater work in the UK. So to see him moving into this and become the core of a fandom – it must be mind blowing for him – but for me, as a long-term, small-scale fan, I’m just astounded watching it.
So I can’t wait to see that hopefully continue and for that cast to start interacting with the fans more. Do you think that they’d do well on that kind of convention circuit you’re used to and engaging in panels with fans and stuff like that?
Oh, absolutely. It is such a quirky group of people, just in themselves. As soon as I read the first script I already knew. Like this is, this is one of those shows. And it’s such a big cast! It’s such a big cast, and everyone’s got such a different dynamic with everyone. So I’m very excited to see how it all plays out. Everyone is very nervous about how like, “Oh my god, how’s it going to be, how are people going to like the show or are they going to like me and my character?” and it’s really cute just to watch everyone fret over it.
So you obviously spent most of this season with Hannah [Marks, Amanda] as a real one-on-one adventure plot. Who – I don’t know what we’re going to see in the finale – but who, just from viewing all those crazy moving parts, would you like to get involved in with scenes more? If the potential arose.
I love watching Sam. Sam is such a perfect Dirk, and every time I watch him do a scene, it just, it blows my mind. Because he’s so perfect. And you know the funny thing is, I don’t think any of us really think we have our characters down? Until like, now, that we’re watching the second season. But I just feel like Sam, from day one he’s had it, he’s the perfect Dirk. And I know they had a really tough time trying to find him.
I’ve heard Max [Landis, Dirk Gently’s creator] talk about this, at their first Comic-Con panel, before the show had gone to air, when it was just presenting the trailer. In the auditions, Sam was the first person that came in the room that made Max say “Oh, I’m not crazy. I haven’t written something that doesn’t make sense. Because this person understands what I was trying to do.”
Like you know, that people were doing too much comedy, they didn’t understand that he was a very sad and very anxious and stuff like that. And Sam was the first, and presumably only person, where Max was like “Oh. Someone actually gets my intention. I haven’t gone crazy. I have actually written something that at least one guy understands.”
So. I love it. Like I love it so much. I love all of the parts of Dirk. Every aspect. It has sort of come together to make a perfect storm where I genuinely think it’s the greatest thing on TV. So. I won’t ask what’s coming for the finale, but what do you want to say about where the show is headed?
I hear the finale is wonderful. I have not seen it yet, but I hear it’s wonderful. Also, I don’t know if we’re going to get a season 3 yet.
Aww, no, it must!
That’s what I say! I’m freaking out about it. I mean I’m not freaking out – but last time, last year I feel like they announced it already.
They announced a season 2 pretty early. My thing about Dirk is that it’s so insane, the fact that BBC America actually even made it in the first place, to me that seems like – Okay, you’ve already bet on it. You’ve already bet that this is going to work.
And it’s so fast, it’s too fast compared to most popular shows, it doesn’t explain anything to the audience, it doesn’t spoon feed, it’s not an easy show to watch, and they already banked on that. So you can’t takesies-backsies on that! I’m like “You knew! It said insane on the tin when you bought it. So you’ve got to actually keep honoring that.”
Pretty much. And I love that they’re taking a chance on it. And I think the one thing that I hope they realize about this show is that it’s not something that is easily marketable. But when people get into it, they’re hooked. If you’re into it you love it. Right? Like if you get it, if this show is for you, if you find it, that’s it. This show will spread by word of mouth. That’s how this kind of show works.
I wish, you know, obviously this is not realistic… But I wish that money wasn’t the main driving force behind everything we consume. Because sometimes it’s okay that something is not for everyone. Sometimes it’s okay that something is not meant to appeal, or not capable of pleasing the biggest quantity of people at any one time. Sometimes it’s okay that something is just for certain types of people, certain groups of people. And obviously that’s sort of an antithesis to the aims of the media industry…
Hey look, it's all of our friends and Suzie #DirkGentlyBBCA pic.twitter.com/WGFrtks1ip
— Dirk Gently (@DirkGentlyBBCA) December 6, 2017
We’re all proud of this show because they’re allowing us to take risks that no other show gets to do. Which is insane. Like most of the time – every season so far has started with Max saying “Guys, remember that crazy thing I pitched you that I never thought they’d let me do? They’re letting us do it!”
Give me a small glimpse of Max, because I love him. I think he’s fantastic and I look at him and all the fannish emotions he expresses and even all his drama that he gets into, and I relate. I’m like “This is why I should not be famous. This is what would happen if I was famous. And this is why I should not be famous because I could not handle it.” But I love him and I know that he’s big and frenetic and potentially difficult. What is it like for you to work with him?
You know, he really reminds me of Ben Edlund.
Yes! I’ve interviewed Ben Edlund and I can totally – I absolutely see that.
Except that he’s a YouTuber. He’s very articulate in his thoughts and he’s amazing at pitching ideas. Right? Like that’s the biggest difference. They’re both mad genius types. I love them both for that reason.
Yeah, it seems like Max is someone who can make people believe in his ideas. Which is like – that’s it. That’s your key… his lifeforce can make you believe in his ideas.
Watching Max pitch an idea is incredible. He is like… the best pitches I’ve ever listened to. You know just over dinner he’ll he like “Hey, I just thought of this story” and he’ll say it and I’m like, “Are you kidding me? Like that’s insane how good that was and you just randomly popped that out of your head while you’re eating.”
I’m literally just smiling and chind-handsing like “So, who’s your favorite character…” God, I even love Friedkin! I have sympathy for Friedkin now and it’s so weird! I’m sitting here dreaming basically. But yeah. I love this show so much.
Bart’s my favorite character.
I love her as well. All of the women in this show as well. They are all women that are allowed to not be the archetype of girls on television and that’s really exciting as well.
Yeah and I mean, that’s one of Max’s strengths, is just really getting good character arcs going, and backstories. The only problem is that he’s still getting into the groove of writing for TV. And there’s so many characters, and there’s so much amazing stuff that’s written that we just can’t fit into the time that we’re allotted. So that’s the only issue.
Have I told you how much I loved @dirkgentlybbca yet? Cause it’s an amazing show, and it’s on @bbcamerica!#Dirkgentlybbca#dirkgently pic.twitter.com/KVykFXatY8
— Osric Chau (@OsricChau) December 5, 2017
Just as a practicality, I wanted to ask as well, Supernatural’s set versus Dirk Gently’s – not so much the culture, but logistics. Obviously Supernatural has that real divide between LA and Vancouver. But I’ve also worked closely with other shows where everything, the production, the writing, it’s all done on site at the shooting location basically, everyone is together all of the time – so what was the environment like for Dirk; with a showrunner like Max and the set being up in Canada?
Vancouver, actually. A lot of the same people in Supernatural. So Max is not the showrunner. He’s the creator and executive producer. He’s like the main writer that goes through every script. But Supernatural, it’s a well oiled machine. Everyone says it, its true. The network, they don’t have to worry about it. Supernatural will get it done.
It runs itself. It’s fine. They know what they’re doing.
Yeah. And so their base is in LA but their production office is in Vancouver. Dirk Gently, everything is in Vancouver. It really feels like a giant independent feature. It feels like everything we’re trying to do, we definitely don’t have the money to do it, but we try anyways. That’s what it feels like for the entire season.
So there’s like a really cool energy about that. And it’s really fun and we get to do all these insane things that we’re like, “How are they letting us do this?” all the time. Or “How are we going to do this? And then they’re like, “Okay, can we do this? I don’t know…” Sometimes it’s yes, sometimes it’s “no, we can’t do that, we’ll have to do something else.” It’s still fun.
Header image courtesy of Stardust and Melancholy.