The perception of beauty is literally dissected from the inside in the new film The Neon Demon, a surreal story of fame and glamour as lean and alluring as the fashion models who take center stage.

The movie marks the third collaboration between director Nicolas Winding Refn and composer Cliff Martinez whose previous efforts Drive and Only God Forgives challenged moviegoers to think past conventional cinema expectations. The Neon Demon is no different and its story of a small town girl arriving in L.A. with dreams of stardom only to experience a rude awakening may seem traditional at face-value but Refn’s offbeat execution is anything but ordinary.

The young starlet at the center of The Neon Demon is played by Elle Fanning and a lot of the film is shown from her virtuous point of view. Refn has spoken in prior interviews that they both collaborated on the details of her character and the hard work definitely shows. Add composer Cliff Martinez to the mix and the result is one of the most unique films you’ll see this year.

Refn and Martinez recently traveled to San Francisco to discuss The Neon Demon, a movie the director proudly calls a horror film about beauty. This is a transcription of our conversation together.

Q: You’ve described this film in recent interviews as a horror film. Why do you see it that way?

Nicolas Winding Refn: I just make films based on what I would like to see.

Q: That also speaks to your family and how you’ve mentioned that you have young daughters and this is a film they might want to see. Is that right?

Refn: Yes.

Q: This film is obviously R-rated but are you advocating for a younger audience to see this film?

Refn: Sure. I think anyone can see it but certainly people of a young age because they are the ones moving into the future. I would certainly advocate for that.

Q: What age range do you feel is appropriate?

Refn: 13 to 85. The reason I say that is because everyone will have an opinion on beauty depending on their age.

Q: That’s a very good point. Cliff, as a composer what kinds of things make you more comfortable when you’re scoring a film and Nicolas what kinds of things make you more comfortable when you’re on set?

Refn: For me I don’t have a comfort zone, it’s just a process. It’s a lot about trust. I trust Cliff to make it work because it’s in his hands and hopefully he trusts me to trust him.

Cliff Martinez: That’s a big part of it for me. I’m a very delicate person and having the support and confidence of a director makes all the difference. That’s probably a big reason why there’s been a repeat collaboration with his films. For me it’s gotten better and better because he keeps letting you out on a longer leash each time. I do my best work when I feel uninhibited and to me his films are outrageous and flamboyant and just very freeing.

Q: That’s true because if the trust wasn’t there in the collaboration you obviously wouldn’t keep working together.

Martinez: That’s right but sometimes his trust can be overwhelming.

Q: Nicolas, when you’re in the editing room do you have a fully shaped story in your head while you’re cutting the movie or are you the type of filmmaker who likes to find the narrative in the editing process?

Refn: No. Since we always shoot chronologically we don’t shoot a lot of coverage. It’s not like I have multiple versions of this specific scene because we don’t have a lot of money to make these movies. We don’t have the sad version, or the happy version or the alternative version. If it doesn’t work the first time around we can’t fix it.

Q: Maybe you can fix it through music.

Refn: (laughs) Of course you can fix things through music and make the movie even better. Since we don’t have a lot of options when we’re making these movies I like that fear of going in and betting everything on one number.

The Neon Demon is now playing in theaters nationwide.