We sat down with Evangeline Lilly at San Diego Comic-Con to discuss The Squickerwonkers and her other upcoming projects.
Evangeline Lilly wants to make one thing clear: this is not a celebrity passion project. The dedication in The Squickerwonkers, an illustrated children’s book that is Lilly’s authorial debut, is to Lilly’s mother, who first heard this story 20 years ago. The book is a strange, creepy tale that will be enjoyed children and adults, and is the first in an ambitious 18 book series.
In our interview, Lilly expands on her authorial aspirations, the inclusion of her (non-canon) character Tauriel in The Hobbit films (“It’s kind of tough to watch hairy, short men for all that time”), and those Ant-Man rumours (“I can’t say anything”).
More from SDCC: Evangeline Lilly calls The Hobbit love triangle “not totally Tolkien”
The Squickerwonkers by Evangeline Lilly with illustrations by Johnny Fraser-Allen will be released on November 18, 2014 and is available for pre-order now. An interactive, digital book will also be released. Doctor Who‘s Sylvester McCoy (who also appeared in The Hobbit) will narrate the digital book. Hypable heard a sample of his narration at Lilly’s SDCC panel, and it was dramatic, creepy, and perfect for The Squickerwonkers.
Hypable: In the dedication you said this story was 20 years in the making, can you tell me about the conception of the story and how it has changed over the years?
Evangeline Lilly: I think it is special that I ended up starting with this book because it wasn’t my intention – I was going to come out of the gate, hopefully, as a writer with another children’s story that I wrote called The Galloping Man, and I wrote that one in my 20s, so it was better writing and it was more sophisticated, and more mature. But this one I had written when I was 14, and my mother had bugged me for 20 years – “When are you going to publish The Squickerwonkers, I really love that poem, you really need to publish that one!” And then my illustrator was the guy who said, “I really want to do The Squickerwonkers,” and I went “Oh. Okay.”
What happened was it had to change. The poem I wrote when I was 14 wasn’t really publishing material, although the concept may have been and the plot was there. It needed some cleaning up – a lot of cleaning up. I probably rewrote the story 35 or 40 times in the last two or three years, and I’ve been working with different people who have been helping and influencing me. Probably none so incredible as Laura Price at Titan Books. She and I worked together on the final edit that is actually going to go out to the public, and for the first time since I started tinkering with the poem, I am 100% happy with it. And I am a perfectionist, so I am never 100% happy with anything. I was grateful and astounded to realise how valuable a good editor can be, to really guide you, ask the right questions and challenge the right moments.
Through all of those changes, has the focus stayed the same? Was it always a story about a spoiled little girl who learns her lesson from these strange creatures?
That’s exactly right. It was always about a little girl with a red balloon who runs into a motley crew of outcasts, who pop her balloon and ultimately inherit her intended fortune. That was always the plot, it never changed. What happened was, Johnny came on board. What I didn’t know in the original story was, I didn’t know what they looked like. I knew they were human, but not human. That they were a different breed of human.
I didn’t really know what that was until Johnny came along, and he had this vision for them being marionette puppets, and I just went, “Oh my god. Perfect, that’s it.” They’re human but they’re not human – that’s exactly what it needs to be. But once we decided that and we knew it was all taking place on the stage, there were certain changes and limitations that came with them being puppets, and the story had to accommodate for that. Because Johnny’s illustrations are so incredible, and I believe wholeheartedly that they elevated my story thousandfold, I sacrificed whatever I had to in the writing to make them work. It just ended up being a lot of rewrites.
You met Johnny through his work at Weta?
Yes.
Can you tell me about your collaboration?
I was working on The Hobbit, and of course that’s how I came to meet Johnny – well really, that’s how I came to meet Richard Taylor at Weta Workshop. I knew I wanted to seek out an illustrator at Weta Workshop because that place is not only inspiring, it hires inspired artists. So I did, I sought out illustrators there through Richard Taylor. Johnny came forward with a portfolio literally the next day, he jumped up with his hand in the air and said, “Me, me, me!” So we started working together, and we started discussing what my visual style is and what I like to see, and what I’m hoping for with the book.
In the portfolio he showed me, there was nothing that really resonated where I went, “This is what I like,” but he was incredibly passionate and he showed a lot of versatility in his art, and Richard Taylor said he really believed in him and knew that Johnny was gifted. We started working together and I was just astounded to watch him create. I would stand over his shoulder when he was sketching an image, and these characters would come to life and these scenes would blossom. I was just green with envy, he is very gifted.
Let’s talk about the writing of the book – it is a children’s book, but it is not really a typical children’s book. Who is your dream reader?
Anybody who loves it! Johnny and I put the story together and the thing we kept telling ourselves was first of all: as children, we liked dark stories, and we like sophisticated stories. As children, Johnny and I hated being pandered to, there was nothing that pissed us off more. We would throw a book across the room if we felt like it was simple, or stupid.
We also knew that as adults, we are both the type of people who still go into the children’s section and look for the best illustrated book and buy it for ourselves. And now, as a mother, I know when you have to read a story 700 times, it better be somewhat entertaining to you also, or you’re going to want to wring your neck.
All of those factors were contributing to how we geared the story, and basically what we decided was the story that appeals to a little four-year-old boy or girl is the same story that appeals to a forty-year-old man or woman, that our tastes don’t change all that much. It’s good literature, it’s fun, it’s spooky, it’s quirky, it’s beautiful to look at, and that’s what we’re all looking for. It doesn’t really change that much.
What are your plans for the rest of the series? How many more ideas do you have for ‘The Squickerwonkers’?
They’re all laid out. It’s two series, the Origins series and the Demise series. They are both about nine books each, so it’s a series of about 18 books – this one being the first and the last. The books will start with the Demise series, and then will go on to the Origins series, because everything is turned on its head. We wind up coming full circle in the series, back to book one. That’s a spoiler right there, I don’t know if I’ve told anyone that before.
And what kind of timeline are you looking at in terms of publishing?
Right now the plan is one book a year. I have only signed with Titan for two books and we want to come out with the second book next year. In my mind, I think if the series picks up and people really love it, I would like to do two books a year and bang through the series because I don’t really necessarily think it makes sense to drag it on for 18 years. That’s a long time! Nine or 10 years, maybe I can handle. It’s like when I started on Lost, I said at the time, “Five or six years I can do – if this goes on any longer than that, I don’t know.”
It must be a different experience this year to come to SDCC primarily as an author rather than an actress.
What’s wonderful about this year is that last year I came with the book, but I didn’t come with a publisher. I came completely on my own, independent, self-published, and without a release date. It was a learning curve. I felt like every single day I was pushing myself to the limit of my ability to learn, and absorb, and keep up. I had no idea what I was doing. I had never published a book before, I had never come to Comic-Con without somebody taking me by the hand all day, every day.
When you’re here as an actor, you have security guards, and publicity, and they just shuttle you around like a ninny and you just smile and wave. So being here as a publisher, I had to set up my booth, and set up payment systems, and set up signings, and arrange to make sure everything was in order and that it wasn’t chaos. It was fun and exciting and exhilarating, and I was on cloud nine – but this year I can relax, I can calm down a little, I have a publisher who is arranging all of the things that we’re doing, and I get to be here as an author now instead of a publisher, which is better.
On page 2: Lilly discusses ‘The Hobbit’ (and refuses to discuss those ‘Ant-Man’ rumours)
Let’s talk about some of your other projects. The third installment of ‘The Hobbit’ is coming later this year. Are you a big Tolkien fan?
Yes!
You said before ‘Desolation of Smaug’ came out that you were apprehensive about how people might receive your character because she isn’t part of the original canon. Looking back at that now, how do you feel about the reactions from fans?
I don’t know if I’m just living in a bubble, or with my head in the sand, but I have experienced mostly only positive reactions to Tauriel. I have heard the tiniest grumblings from the odd troll online, but for the most part she was really well received and people were really glad to have some feminine energy in the films. It’s nine hours of entertainment; it’s kind of tough to watch hairy, short men for all that time. I also think that she added an element of the feminine spirit, which is humanity and compassion, that I think was a little bit needed.
That story, that book as we all know, is one children’s story. It’s not an extremely sophisticated story, and it doesn’t have a ton of layers – nor does it have a ton of character development. So when you start developing out those characters, you start to have to elaborate on their motivations, and the motivation of 90% of the characters in that book is greed, selfishness, pride.
And revenge.
Revenge! There’s so few good and true intentions in those male characters. I think it was a little bit of an emotional relief and release to watch those films and suddenly hear somebody say, “We just have to do what’s right.”
And what can we expect from her in ‘Battle of the Five Armies’?
Everything with everyone’s storyline in the third film is going to boil to a head. Things get very intense. It’s going to be the darkest out of the three films, and I think it’s the one that will resemble most the original Lord of the Rings films. Of course, it’s entitled the Battle of the Five Armies, so there’s a big, epic battle, and it’s good and evil coming to a head as it always is in Tolkien’s storybooks.
And it’s no different for Tauriel. What’s great is you’ll get the answer to the big romantic question. Does she love an elf, does she love a dwarf, does she not love either one of them? Ultimately Tauriel, at the bottom of it all, is a hero. She starts out as a hero, and she ends as a hero. I think she has a great story.
Intriguing. But speaking of that love triangle, there was also a little apprehension on your part about that?
Oh there was more than a little apprehension.
How are you feeling about it now?
Before I agreed to take the role, it was the only stipulation I laid down: no love triangles. I did one for six years, I am done. And there wasn’t. In the original script, there wasn’t. In the original shooting, there wasn’t. We shot for a year and there was no love triangle. And then we came back for reshoots, and this little surprise was dropped in our laps.
“The relationship between Tauriel and these male characters is a bit too ambiguous, and it’s a bit confusing, and we’re not really understanding what’s what. We need to make it a little clearer and a little bit more obvious for our audience, and therefore we’re going to turn something that was subtle, and delicate, and beautiful into a bit more of an obvious love triangle.” I just went, “No!” But I actually didn’t drop to my knees and cry, I actually understood. Because when we were filming, I was getting frustrated, because I was feeling like it was not clear.
I knew as an audience member, it was just going to be annoying. They’re just going to be annoyed with these characters because it’s not clear – it’s not clear what is her relationship to Legolas, and what is her relationship to Kili, and what is this all about? If it’s confusing, it’s really obnoxious. Love triangles get a bit obnoxious even if they’re clear, but when they’re not, it’s even more obnoxious, so I understood why they had to do it.
And you’re feeling okay about it now?
Yeah, I’m feeling fine about it. I don’t think it’s the most shining part of the film, and I don’t think it’s necessarily – I’m going to get lynched for saying this – but it’s not totally Tolkien. I know he has written love triangles in some of the later works that he wrote. In the end, it is what it is. I don’t focus too much on it because it’s a tiny part of the story. And it’s a tiny part of her story.
Okay, and I have to ask: you’re rumoured to be playing the female lead in ‘Ant-Man?’
I can’t say anything.
But you’re staying at Comic-Con through Sunday?
Yeah. I’ll be here four days, and then I go off to do Hobbit ADR for Battle of the Five Armies.
Have you seen the final ‘The Hobbit’ film yet?
No, I’ll see parts of it – probably all of my parts because Peter Jackson notoriously ADRs almost everything. I’ll get to see the majority of all of my work on Monday and Tuesday when I’ll be doing ADR. Then I wait, and I don’t see the completed film until I’m sitting at the theatre at the premiere. I like that movie going experience, when you go with people who are excited to see it, and they’re laughing, and clapping, and gasping.
When you’re watching the screener that they show the actors so that they can talk to the press, you’re in the room with a bunch of people who are extremely self-conscious, and terrified of whether or not they did a good job, all watching themselves for the first time and it is very tense. It’s not fun. I don’t go to those screenings, I wait until the premiere and then you’re there with people who love it and are excited. It’s way more relaxed.
So you spend months answering questions about-
A film I’ve never seen! Yeah! But I’m a good bluffer, that’s what I do for a living.