It’s no secret that George Lucas was winging it when he made Star Wars in 1977. An early interview reveals an alternate plan for the saga.

In an alternate reality, Star Wars fans might right now be debating who would win in a fight: Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, or Darth Vader. The t-shirts would read “Anakin shot first,” not Han.

George Lucas’ first film in the Star Wars saga, at the time simply titled Star Wars as opposed to A New Hope, was a smash hit success that would change the face of cinema forever.

Related: Confessions of a brand new Star Wars fan: I have trouble caring about the originals

But Lucas’ eventual epic mythology, spanning six (now seven) installments and tracking the life and deeds of the Skywalker family, had not yet been fully developed.

It’s a well-known fact that, when Star Wars hit theaters, George Lucas had not yet decided that Darth Vader was Luke’s father, nor that Leia and Luke were siblings (hence the incidental incest).

This won’t be news to superfans, of course, but new Star Wars fans who joined us after The Force Awakens will be curious to see just how different Lucas’ early plans for “Star Wars II” (later Episode V) actually were.

This interview with Lucas from 1978 was dug up by the Tumblr account Web of Star Wars:

It’s clear from this interview that Lucas was already drawn to tell the story of Obi-Wan and Darth Vader, and amazingly, a lot of Lucas’ early ideas ended up in the prequel trilogy almost over 20 years later!

It’s also fun to consider that, when Obi-Wan originally told Luke that Darth Vader killed his father, he was being very literal.

If Lucas had followed this idea — that Anakin and Darth Vader were different people — everything would have been different. Perhaps his “I am your father” reveal would have come from Obi-Wan? Perhaps Luke and Leia (no longer siblings) would have ended up together?

Ultimately though, a big appeal of Star Wars is its iconic twists. We’re glad the story developed as it did. And continuity wasn’t completely shot: Fans have been able to go back to A New Hope and find ways of re-interpreting everything Obi-Wan tells Luke to make it fit the new timeline.