During the Avengers: Age of Ultron press tour, Jeremy Renner and Chris Evans made some unfortunate comments about Scarlett Johansson’s Black Widow. Appearing on Conan, Renner attempts to explain himself… sort of.

“I’m unapologetic about a lot of things,” Jeremy Renner tells Conan O’Brien, appearing on the late night show to promote Avengers: Age of Ultron (out in cinemas now!).

Renner is referring to comments made by himself and Chris Evans a few weeks back, when the pair were asked about their co-star Scarlett Johansson’s character’s romantic interests in the Avengers movies.

As the Black Widow has been linked romantically to both Evans and Renner’s characters (Captain America and Hawkeye) and now to the Hulk (Mark Ruffalo), the pair jokingly called her a “slut.” Since then, the actors have been heavily criticized for their their callous treatment of the only main female character in the movie.

While the internet seems split on whether or not we should be so quick to take offense at off-handed statements like these — which is a whole other discussion — the truth is that many fans did legitimately feel troubled by the actors’ easy use of the slur. (And we hope that our readers can respect that, even if they themselves were not offended.)

Related: Avengers star Mark Ruffalo answers “sexist” questions usually directed at Scarlett Johansson

Both stars have since released statements addressing the incident; Evans acknowledged that the comments were “juvenile and offensive,” and said, “I regret it and sincerely apologize.” Renner said he was “sorry that this tasteless joke about a fictional character offended anyone.”

That should be the end of it, of course, and for most fans it was. It was a joke — in poor taste, yes, but without malicious intent. We should all be able to recognize this, and let it go. Moving on, perhaps, to the real issue at hand.

Taking a closer look at the reactions, people seemed to be reacting less to the specific comments made by the actors in the interview (let’s get real: their off-handed use of the word isn’t going to make or break the equal rights movement, and we all know it), and more to the fact that it’s still so easy, in 2015, to label female characters (as well as women in real life) as “sluts” for showing interest in more than one potential romantic partner.

When Renner appeared on Conan this Monday, the issue was once again brought up. Renner re-iterated that it was a joke, and implied that because the Black Widow is a fictional character, people should not take offense.

Now, let’s move past the joke itself. Let’s move past whether or not it’s reasonable for people to take offense, because even if it is, the actors have apologized and we’re not going to antagonize them for it any more.

Let’s focus on the other part of Renner’s statement: that we shouldn’t take the slur to heart because the Black Widow is a fictional character.

Related: Black Widow gets her own Marvel movie in SNL parody starring Scarlett Johansson

Writing as fans, for fans, we figured it might be an interesting topic for Hypable readers: should fictional characters really be fair game, impervious to offensive comments because they themselves do not feel the offense?

On first glance, it seems like a ridiculous thing to ask. Of course fictional characters aren’t real, and shouldn’t be held up to real-person standards; the Black Widow is a construct, a made-up figure in a made-up world. Certainly Jeremy Renner is using this logic to explain away his “slut” comment. Why do people get so up in arms about him offending a person who doesn’t even exist?

Here’s our counter-point then, speaking as members of a community which has grown up idolizing fictional characters, taking social cues from movies and TV shows, and learning about the world from reading books and comics:

Fictional characters are people too.

At least to the extent that we identify with them, dress up like them, care about what happens to them, and let our children play with their action figures. (…Well, we guess that last one won’t be a problem in the case of Black Widow, huh Marvel?)

We don’t want to condemn Jeremy Renner and Chris Evans for their joking comments; they’ve apologized, and whether or not we took offense in the first place, we really should be able to forgive and forget.

But we do want to point out that, considering the prevalence of popular culture in our society and the proven impact of Hollywood stereotypes on real-life behavior, the argument “she’s not real so it doesn’t matter” just doesn’t work anymore.

As a prominent figure in the entertainment industry, Renner must know how important a character like the Black Widow is to her fans: as the lone female superhero, surrounded by heroic male archetypes and single-handedly shouldering centuries’ worth of gender stereotypes and expectations, she takes on a much more symbolic status for the female (and male) audience than she is usually given credit for.

And when the Black Widow is awarded the “slut” label in a callous and off-handed way, she is perversely also being awarded legitimacy as a “human being,” because the actors were in this instance judging her as if she were real.

Related: Where were all the women in Avengers: Age of Ultron?

Determining whether you personally found the joke problematic is one thing. Giving industry professionals the carte blanche to judge fictional characters by real-life standards, just because they’re fictional? This is what we need to be talking about.

For better or worse, we take our cues from entertainment. That’s why issues of representation are so important, and why we need to keep having these conversations. It’s why Renner and Evans’ “slut” comment hit home in the first place; it may have been a cheap shot, but it was also an easy shot, because the word is used so frequently in everyday conversation.

Confident, strong female characters are so easily positioned as “sluts” by real-life standards, because they embrace their sexuality. It’s a way to water down their importance, and a way to write them off as foils to the usually more layered, autonomous male characters.

Related: Five must-read comics for Avengers fans

The fact that they’re fictional doesn’t mean we should overlook this problem, and it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t think about the words we use to describe them. In fact, the way we label fictional characters is very important, because they hold symbolic, universal value (and power of persuasion) in a way that real people don’t.

If we’re going to buy into this “fandom” thing (which, hey, seems like it’s here to stay!), if we’re going to celebrate Marvel’s Cinematic Universe and continue to feed the pockets of big Hollywood studios (and their employed actors), then we should also hold them accountable for the messages they put out there, and recognize the fact that their characters are, in their own way, real. At least, their influence on society is real.

To quote Natasha Romanoff’s fellow fictional construct Albus Dumbledore (via J.K. Rowling): “Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”