D.J. Doyle, the man behind Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 4×07, gives us the scoop on timelines, tragedy… and budding romance?

On a technical level, “Deals With Our Devils” is an incredibly complicated episode. What was it like to balance so many repeated scenes and multiple levels of dialogue?

A nightmare! [laughs] It was interesting. We knew that was going to be the challenge going into it, the second we decided to kind of play around with time. We kind of planned out a lot of these scenes, knowing that we were going to have to go back. So one of the hardest things about it was making sure that things timed out. Which they didn’t always! We kind of stretched a few things here and there.

But I would basically write in dual dialogue so I could see both versions of it on the page. And then there were countless hours in my house just basically spent [with] me reading scenes to myself, in my mind, kind of planning out where the holes and where the pauses in the conversations would be, so I could go back. I tried to plan out as much as I could, and then the rest was just kind of keeping my fingers crossed on the day.

And the actors! I mean, really, the actors and our director Jesse [Bochco] were kind of amazing. We would go in and block one side of [a scene], and just get that side locked in as best as possible, and then bring in the second team that was going to be in the later version of it. They were just so good about finding their spaces, figuring out how to work with each other — and respect the fact that one side had already been shot, so it was kind of locked in place. It was a really interesting thing to watch.

Were there any part of the script that worried you particularly? Did any scenes turn out better than you anticipated?

I was terrified of the early Act I and Act II command center scenes in the Zephyr, because I knew those were going to be our biggest one. I was happy with how that turned out, just because we wanted to have at least six people, seven, in that scene, and they all just found their spots and found a way to make it work.

And I was super happy with how the lab scene came out. I just thought that Iain [DeCaestecker] and Clark [Gregg] found a beautiful take on the scene, and just kind of found ways to bring in the other actors for important moments. The look to Aida and kind of realizing what’s going on with her, they found a way to do it without making it feel like the same scene of May figuring that out in a previous act. So I just thought they really showed up.

And just really the patience and trust from everyone, across the board, was a godsend. Because it’s a lot to get your head around, especially when they first get the script and they’re just kind of reading it on the page, and kind of shuffling back to previous scenes and having to imagine it in their heads. I think everyone handled it very well.

That confrontation between Fitz and Coulson is a really beautiful moment. How did you plan that out, in between all of the complicated demands of the plot?

There are certain things that are baked into every episode that we know going in. We want people to have a confrontation, or certain emotional arcs are mapped out. But for me, I knew, it came out of a few places. Just as someone in the room and always keeping Fitz’s emotional state in mind, and the different issues that he has, I felt like this was the right time for that.

Obviously, I talked to the producers about it, a few things that I thought were just important. If you are in [that] state, and you’re terrified on one hand, and you have lingering… I don’t want to say resentment, but issues that are kind of [understandable], because you only have part of a story, and all that gets amplified. I just felt like they were in a dire situation, and I think just from my own life and other situations, that’s always the moment where something comes up that’s not directly related to what’s going on, but it’s kind of a misplaced transferring of emotion.

And for me, those are the scenes where that’s bound to come up — when it’s least convenient, but important, because of the things that are going on in your head. Just about, are you ever going to be alive again? Are you going to get back to your girlfriend? Not knowing how someone’s faring on the other side of the world, or even where they are, just kind of brought out a lot of issues of either being stuck, or in some ways being abandoned. I think [Fitz] has a lot of questions for Coulson, and for Daisy, and for the state of S.H.I.E.L.D., because they had a good thing going and then things kind of went wrong. We haven’t really seen him be able to communicate that much before that scene, other than [when] he has that conversation with Mack the first time they saw Daisy.

And it’s probably similar for Coulson, as well.

There were a few things on the Coulson side that had never been addressed. You know, you’re in this situation where you’re used to looking at Coulson like a leader, because he is in many ways the leader of this team, and the father of this team. But Fitz doesn’t neccesarily agree with everything that’s going on. But on the other hand, Fitz doesn’t know everything that’s gong on, and understand the things that Coulson has been going through, and the tightrope that he’s kind of walking to maintain, both maintain and kind of walk away from some of his responsibilities, and the larger responsibilities to S.H.I.E.L.D. and their place in the world.

It’s also very cool, because you manage to connect couples despite their being on totally separate planes of existence. Coulson and May act almost in tandem, and they clearly take a step in the way they see each other.

Mm-hmm. I totally agree with that. I mean, it’s a small step, but it’s a step. And it’s just kind of distance and the possibility of loss forcing issues. It’s forcing faith and believing that someone’s still there, and that there is hope, but there’s also kind of a reminder. That old friend, as your figuring things out on your own, I guess on May’s side, it forces a lot of issues. That sort of loss, and that kind of a sense of, what am I doing? I’ve been in stasis, or I’ve been taking a certain relationship for granted, that it will always be the same. Just the possibility of that going away, bringing up the ideas that, “I’m not ready for that, and I’m not ready to concede that loss.”

And then from Coulson’s point of view, the idea of being on a separate plane for me was interesting, because all of a sudden he’s kind of lost the ability to unilaterally control a lot, lately. Just because of his place in S.H.I.E.L.D., and whether he’d like that or not, all of a sudden in a moment where he needs to control things, or feels the need to be able to take action, and he can’t. [It] forces just for himself, a lot of issues of wanting to be heard, and then suddenly not being able to be heard by May.

And just seeing what that means to him, when he thinks he might have had the slightest bit of connection with her, when it’s just the two of them. Or wanting to navigate a way forward with Fitz and realizing even with this person who’s on this journey with him, that he doesn’t have complete control anymore. And what’s he going to do about it? Does he accept it, or is he going to fight for control back?

I just had a lot of fun. I thought it was a really fun episode to get to play with, because of those planes. And yeah, on a simple level, as far as Coulson and May go, I definitely think it’s a step forward. They deal with the possibility of death a lot, but this just kind of felt different in some way to me.

Is it possible that Coulson and May might be taking steps down a romantic path now?

I don’t know that there’s a defined path going forward. I’m definitely trolling all the Philinda people out there!… I don’t know if I would immediately say it’s a romantic step forward. I mean, we’re definitely playing with that idea a little bit, I think. But for me, it’s just the importance that they have for each other, it’s just kind of a reminder of how close they are to each other. And I think deep down, yeah, they’re kind of wondering, looking at each other. I think it definitely raises the question of, “What are we doing?”

I don’t think it would be fair of me to say that there’s definitely not romantic feelings there, on some level. I don’t know necessarily if we’re promising how far we’re going to go down that route, but I think they are kind of seeing each other in a new light, a little bit.

So tell me about writing Mack as Ghost Rider. That was a huge moment, what was it like bringing it to life?

A lot of this was a discussion, because we were kind of curious how [Henry Simmons] would chose to play it. I mean, Henry is such a great actor. I mean, he’s a phenomenal actor, so I was kind of excited to see what he would do with it. I hoped it would be fun for him, it seemed like he was having fun with it. But it was just kind of awesome to get to see him step into the role and do something a little bit different.

I know we were excited. As we were breaking this [story], it was one of the most exciting things to get to write down on the board “MackRider!” for the first time. And we knew instantly, okay, that’s an act out. That is definitely our act out, we’ll find a way to pay for it, but we have to show this. And that just energized the whole [writers] room, looking at that and imagining it in your head.

I knew I wanted this to be kind of a character who is very direct, who is going to move forward and didn’t worry about any consequences. Mack as a person, I think, is very judicious, and balanced, and thoughtful of other people. And I think MackRider just doesn’t care, because he has that Spirit of Vengeance inside him, and I just wanted it to be kind of, what does Mack look like when he’s completely off the rails? So it was fun to take his character’s early frustration, and look at it with a hell-demon inside of you, who has no worry about consequence, really. So that was the fun for me, that he just got to play the shark.

And we get to almost look into Mack’s soul now, for one of the first times, and we’re not sure what we’re seeing there.

Yeah! That was fun for me throughout. In most of the episode, it is a little bit of a balance just because it is him, but it’s also him possessed by something. And then also realizing that maybe there is something a little bit down deeper that we get to tap into. A sense of pain. That’ll be fun, quite frankly, for other people to explore!

But any time you get to scratch a little bit below the surface of the character, that’s exactly why we all get into this, and what we want to play with. So we were just so happy to get to lay a few things down, and really raise more questions than any answers. But just to let people know, there are things going on about Mack that we don’t necessarily know, and that’s what you ask for as a writer when you’re looking at an episode.

“Deals With Our Devils” also ends with a huge development for Aida, as she basically builds herself a brain! What can you tease about what’s in store for her? Should we be scared?

Everything that everyone’s doing in this episode, there will be consequences for. And I think the decision to have Aida read that book, that’s definitely something… that is an evil, well… I don’t want to say it’s an evil book. I think it will allow into unintended consequences. I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s going somewhere terrible, but I think it will be interesting to see that decision that Fitz and May made, will definitely… they were giving an incredibly powerful piece of technology to someone who is an incredibly powerful piece of technology. And I think we’re going to have a lot of fun with that.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 4×08, “The Laws of Inferno Dynamics,” airs on Tuesday, Dec. 6 at 10:00 p.m. on ABC.