Posted on 9:34 am,
April 10, 2012

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Smash Chat episode 12 is here! Don’t expect there to be a lot of talk about Uma Thurman though, seeing as she was only in the episode for 30 seconds…

-Coty makes a quick guest appearance at the beginning of the episode! It’s too bad he sounds so sick =[

-Why didn’t Julia tell Tom about Frank leaving her, up until her outburst at the high school play? Don’t they tell each other everything?

-Hey Karen, your naïvety is showing. Just thought you should know.

-What’s this? Ivy’s treating Karen nicely?!

-Woah woah woah, so exactly WHAT was happening during Derek’s hallucination?

-We applaud Dereck for not fighting back at Dev!

-Dev’s argument with Karen was wrong on so many levels.


-News covers a rumor of “Bombshell” coming to the real world Broadway, and a slightly spoilerific synopsis of Smash episode 12 from (Don’t worry-there’s a spoiler warning, and a time to fast forward to to avoid it).

-Mitch has Megan and Jess take part in a debate on the topic of Dereck’s true feelings for Ivy.

-We read a couple of listener comments that caught our eye.


As promised, here’s a picture of the lovely Jessica O’Neal with her husband Eddie back in 2011.

This episode's hosts: Mitchel Clow, Jessica O'Neal, Megan Stoll

  • Jeff D.

    Who’s Uma Theman? lol.

    • Ocy

      She’s an actress. You could find her on Wikipedia

      • Jeff D.

        No, I know who Uma Thurman is. I was making a joke, because initially her last name was misspelled in the Smash Chat episode description above (now it’s been corrected).

        • Ocy

          Aha, I see. It all makes sense now!

  • Coty Chanley

    It sounds like I am in an extraordinary amount of pain, but I promise that I was not!

    • Ocy

      I know what it’s like to sound worse than you really are. You make me laugh and I miss listening to you all the time on the show. Hope you feel better soon!

      • Coty Chanley

         Hahaha, thanks! I feel better today!

  • Coty Chanley

    ALSO KAREN, I hope you know I was teasing. You’re not a homewrecker <3

  • Ocy

    Hello again!


    First thing I wanted to say was I was a bit surprised when I
    found out that Julia hadn’t told Tom about Frank leaving. I had expected her to
    go to him straight away, I’m wondering if this is foreshadowing to some sort of
    distance growing between Julia and Tom, though it doesn’t seem likely. I hope
    not. I also thought that Julia was being very rude and didn’t really have any
    justification, and yet I still like her character. It’s like you guys said, the
    effect of Debra Messing.


    Next, Eileen burning the contracts was really cool, I
    considered it better than a martini in the face because it was much more
    symbolic. It was more than an ‘I just want to annoy you and get you to shut up,’
    kind of thing and more of a ‘I never want to see you again, cutting all ties to
    you’ sort of thing. I clapped during that scene.


    Also, there was a scene where Tom and Sam are walking down
    the street and talking about Ivy and it seems like they’re just alone and being
    friendly and suddenly John pops up behind them. It shocked me and at first I
    was like ‘Did he just run into them?’ but then it’s like he was there the whole
    time because Tom was actually on a date with John but COMPLETELY blanked him to
    talk to Sam. And then John went to take a coffee to Tom and I presume take him
    for lunch and just walked away when he saw him with Sam and I really felt for
    John because he’s trying a lot more than Tom is to make it work. It’s a very
    one sided relationship, and I’ve always though of it like that. If we do see
    John again, Tom and John are not going to last much longer. I also think that
    the last scene where John says ‘goodbye’ or whatever was like an open invitation
    for Tom to deny it somehow or prove him wrong, but he just sat there and didn’t
    even deny it a little bit. But I think that everyone could kind of see it
    coming, everyone knew that it wasn’t going to last.


    Karen and Dev isn’t going to last either. It’s like my
    earlier theory, that when people are in the theatre, they don’t even seem to
    notice that there are other things going on in the world around them. Just like
    Tom never seemed interested in John’s life, Karen does not at all seem
    interested in Dev’s life. She talks to him about her own problems and barely
    asks about him or his work, even though she knows that there was something
    going on there because they were all preparing for Dev to get that promotion.
    She literally has no interest in his life and it seems like she just keeps him
    around as someone to talk to when she feels like it. I know that Dev is
    blocking, but she’s either too self absorbed or uncaring to notice it. It isn’t
    a healthy relationship and it isn’t going to last. Also, when Karen and Dev
    were arguing and she brings up the ‘giving up everything for each other’ thing,
    and Dev asks her to ask him to do it but she didn’t say anything, I think that
    she didn’t say anything because Dev has already had to alter his lifestyle
    around Karen and where she’s going. He has a serious job opportunity somewhere
    else, and Karen is an understudy in a musical that isn’t even off the ground
    yet. Karen also says that Marilyn is the reason she’s here, like this is the
    only place where musicals happen and this is the only place where she has any
    chance or opportunity. She had no idea what would happen when she got there, it
    was all one big risk and she’s acting like every move she’s made was strategized
    when it wasn’t because everything that Dev does for his work has to be
    strategized, because it’s politics. You can’t take a risk and move somewhere
    and land yourself a big political job. It’s like she’s trying to prove that
    what she does it much more important than what Dev does, like what he wasn’t is
    silly and small next to her dream of being a star.  


    The fight scene between Dev and Derek was really weird. It
    was like the punch didn’t even effect Derek. I mean, he had frozen peas on it
    after but it was barely a mark, especially compared to when Frank punched
    Michael and half of his face was badly swollen. It was a pathetic fight, I was


    Also, there’s that thing where Derek had a ‘change of heart’
    or whatever when he saw Karen and Marilyn. I seriously think this is a
    foreshadowing to some serious romance between those two. He originally wanted
    Karen as Marilyn, he wanted to sleep with her before he slept with Ivy but up
    until now his attraction to her was mostly physical and he occasionally used
    her to keep Ivy in check and make sure he was still able to control and
    manipulate her. I seriously think that he’s falling for Karen and is maybe
    thinking that he needs to be a better man to be with her or something? Like, he’s
    trying to take the high road so he doesn’t seem like such a douche and win the
    heart of the girl! I still don’t like him.


    Ivy was clearly finding it difficult to be nice to Karen and
    everyone else, especially after the embarrassment with Heaven on Earth. I still
    don’t quite understand how being nice to everyone now is going to help her,
    because she really did fall quite a long way from where she was and she’s not
    going to get very far if she’s just relying on people responding to her being
    nice. I suppose we’re going to have to wait and see what else she’s got up her
    sleeve, but I think she’s planning an alliance with Karen.


    Derek doesn’t love Ivy

    1. Derek has serious feelings for Karen

    2. The way the relationship began was not from emotional
    attachment but physical desire

    3. He has a level of control over Ivy, he has a bit of a
    control complex and Ivy helps satisfy it

    4. Something for him to come back to. It’s slightly
    emotional, he has some sort of attachment but it is much too selfish to be
    love. It’s about him and what he wants and not about any kind of partnership


    Thanks for the mention in the last podcast episode, you’re
    really awesome to listen to. (Just wanted to mention something that I should
    have before, Ocy is a nickname I gave myself before I knew how English worked
    so I pronounce it Oc-E, with an Oc sound like Octopus. It has a silent,
    invisible t… But I’m not changing that spelling now so I guess I’m just going
    to have one of those dictionary pronunciation things next to my name, hehe) 

    Damn, this was going to be a short comment…

    • Megan Stoll

      Your arguments for why Derek doesn’t love Ivy were a lot more convincing than mine. You win! :)

      • Ocy

        Pretty sure that Derek is supposed to come across as one of those people who doesn’t really know what love is or something like that. He has some level of emotional care but it’s not really love, it’s like it’s selfish attachment. It’s kind of like what was going on with John and Tom, useful to have around and the company isn’t bad either but there’s not really anything there.

  • Ocy

    I also forgot to mention how much I loved the new original song, Don’t Say Yes Until I Finish Talking. It was brilliant. I was just swooning that whole scene (and wondering about the towels as well…)

  • Kate

    Someone mentioned in the episode (can’t remember who!) that Derek’s assistant (the asian woman who lets everyone know when to take a break) always catches their eye. I did some research—she’s the stage manager, and she’s played by Ann Harada: the original Christmas Eve from Avenue Q! How cool :)

    I’ve gotta disagree with everyone and say that Eileen was a moron in this episode. I know that scene of her humiliating the investors was supposed to make viewers cheer, since it’s a nice powerful moment for her. But really? No Broadway producer would burn bridges so dramatically with experienced, wealthy investors. None of their requests were even disrespectful or outrageous. Having a personal meeting with the absentee movie star (who’s supposed to be headlining the musical) to ascertain Rebecca’s dedication seems totally reasonable to me. So did their anxiety about the musical in general, but still, they were willing to invest. What if Eileen wants to produce a new musical in a few years and rocker dude is either broke or not interested (if, say, Marilyn was a flop and he lost a lot of money on it)?  She should have made the wise choice to stay on good terms with these potential business partners. Or, worse, what if it turns out that rocker dude got this money totally illegally (as was hinted at) and it’s discovered and Eileen and Bombshell are embroiled in the scandal?  I hate to say it, but perhaps Eileen should’ve glanced at the background report that Sneaky Bastard put together.

    Great episode guys! I love the extra long ones :)  Especially thrilled for the return of Coty :)

    • Ocy

      I do have to agree with you about Eileen there. I mean, it was dramatic but it’s true that burning bridges won’t help you in the long run. I’m thinking that the financial situation will always be a part of this story because here you can tell it didn’t come from the most reliable source.

      The Sneaky Bastard wasn’t seen much this episode, but it’s clear that he’s trying and failing to manipulate Eileen in this situation and her responses to him always amuse me. But I think she’s afraid that her bartender friend might be too good to be true or something…

      • Jessica O’Neal

        Ugh. I meant to bring up the fact that Sneaky Bastard said he dug up something on Nick, but Eileen wouldn’t listen to it. Clearly, I forgot. But yeah, it was one of those scenes where I had conflicting emotions. On the one hand, I loved that Eileen yelled at Sneaky Bastard and put him in his place, but on the other hand, I am nervous about whatever information he found. There is more to Nick than we know and it scares me. I am really hoping that whatever it is won’t be that big of a deal anymore. Like, maybe he did something bad in his past, but he has moved on and isn’t that person anymore or something. 

        Anyway, excellent points about Eileen, Kate. I was definitely caught up in the emotion of those scenes, but you are right in that they weren’t being all that unreasonable. I think the thing that got to me about them, though, wasn’t what they were demanding, but why. It seemed to me that the only reason they were being so slow to commit was because it was Eileen and not Jerry. No one seems to trust Eileen or take her seriously without Jerry at her side and that is annoying. But, we also don’t know all the reason behind that. Maybe there is a reason that people are wary of an unchecked Eileen. Thank you so much for the awesome comment and for listening!

        • Megan Stoll

          I wonder if Nick used to be a con artist…

          I agree with everything you said, Kate. I actually meant to bring that up, but I got caught up in the emotion of FIRE! 

          I think what upsets me most about the investors is that they think that the sun shines out of Jerry’s ass, he can do no wrong. Well, he treats Eileen like crap, so that’s frustrating!

  • noisyhearts

    I hate Karen. Hate her. She’s useless & irritating & every time she’s on screen I want to stab my eyes out. I find nothing redeeming about her character at all. I also don’t understand why Dev didn’t leak the pictures himself but he is trapped in storyline hell so I’m not surprised he’s being such a total wet blanket about life. It made absolutely no sense to me. I also can’t bring myself to care one bit about Julia’s storyline and every scene with Leo is PAINFUL, holy crap, that kid CANNOT ACT. Also, every time Ellis is on screen I literally want to scream, “I DON’T WANT TO SEE YOU!” He is the WORST.

    Tom is by far the best character on this show and the musical number he was in was flawless and hilarious. I’m so glad they gave Christian Borle that song and he got a chance to be the center of attention for a bit although I hope he gets to show his vocals off better in the future. I felt somewhat bad for lawyer John but I think it’s been clear for a few episodes that it was heading towards a breakup. Which I hope that was, because I’m bored of this storyline and the show needs to keep moving and not get stuck telling the same boring story every week.

    I think Derek cares legitimately about Ivy and have never seen what they have as a casting couch situation. I thought they were adorably dysfunctional this week and I am delighted every time they’re on screen together. The “how’s your dead hooker?” line the other week had me in stitches. They have really great chemistry. If the show goes to a Derek/Karen place I might be out. I genuinely don’t think I could stand watching it, it would be such a car crash and not in an appealing way. She’s just awful, they have absolutely no chemistry and it would be a disaster. In the early episode when he hit on her I very much saw it as him testing her rather than him having a legitimate attraction to her. I love his and Ivy’s relationship and the direction it’s going in and I want to see more of that. If Karen has to have more screentime I may weep.

    • Megan Stoll

      Thank you. LEO IS DEFINITELY THE WORST. Just wait till he cries again… 

    • Jessica O’Neal

      THANK YOU!! I agree with almost everything you said (I do care for Julia, but Leo is AWFUL). So, so, so glad there is someone else who does not care for Karen. 

  • Gianmarco Segato

    A fabulous trip to NYC foiled my attempts to keep up with the show and these podcasts! Still, am in the midst of listening to this one, and want to say that your conversation regarding how arts careers are viewed by some people in other, more obviously prestigious fields is so true. I admire the way you all discussed this topic with such intelligence and insight. I wonder though… in terms of the show. I kind of got the feeling that Dev was actually implying *he* would give up his career for Karen, or at least stay in NYC at his current job rather than take the promotion in Washington. My take was that he kind of offered her that scenario but wanted to know if she would do the same for him.  And Karen’s hesitation and lack of a reply spoke volumes. Not that she should leave NYC at all – she’d be crazy to given the obvious importance of her calling and the success she is starting to achieve. On another note….loved, loved looooved the steam room set piece. Tom was so fabulous in this and really showed another side to his acting/performing skills. I think the speak/singing was just fine for this kind of piece which was really all about the lyrics which BTW were fantastic. Again, this is the kind of piece that would be absolutely right in place in an actual (really good) Broadway show. Loved the Derek fantasy of Karen as Marilyn – thought this was incredibly innovative and it must be some kind of foreshadowing…

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